Words

[dar_jeeling]

Rec me some books, people! I'm currently browsing through Amazon and if you feel that there's something I should absolutely read, let me know, please. *makes the puppy dog eyes*

Also, if you know about French fanfiction, give me links right now because my skills in that language are rapidly deteriorating. It took me five minutes to remember the word for yesterday. Yesterday. Oh, the utter shame.

And finally, a question for the writers. Do you write a fic and send that first draft off to beta or do you type it out, let it sit on the hard drive for a while, second-guess yourself, change stuff and then send it off to beta?

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

I've read mostly bad or blah books recently, but I'd rec both novels by Joe Keenan, and especially the first and third by Minette Walters, off the top of my head.



I think the only people I know who write one first draft from start to finish are also those that don't use betas at all *g*

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Bad or blah books? Yeah, exactly my problem. And I really don't want to be completeley disappointed this time.

Hee. I hadn't thought of that. Maybe you're right. ;)

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

*headdesk* Thanks for the recs!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

You're welcome. If my wardrobe hadn't just toppled over and I wasn't too lazy to clean it all up, I'd be able to go into the other room to check for more, though I find reading tastes can't be compared easily. I have a stack here that I already drafted a post on, which is too blah/bad to actually unlock though.


I tend not to send anything I just wrote down away, and I think it also depends on the relationship you have with your beta, and how far she is involved in the authoring process (or in my case, getting a hold of her). AIS, the fast one-go writers tend to dislike any editing, and "beta" there might mean something completely different.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

I wasn't too lazy to clean it all up The way of doing things around here: first, talk about it in your lj, then think about cleaning up/extinguishing the fire/rescuing the puppy. ;)

reading tastes can't be compared easily. Too true.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Of course - is there another way? Says she who wants to smite that old friend of hers who'd rather spam -i-'s journal than frikkin google.

And in the interest of good-will and procrastination (and since I didn't think I needed to mention Pratchett, Atwood or Highsmith, do I?), which bad/blah books have you read recently? Are those you like generally older than five years? What have you found in Amazon so far?

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Oh, but there's a difference between "Omg, my house is burning down while I'm typing this!" spam and "Provide this information because I have never heard of this obscure google thing you speak of, plzkthx" spam.

In the interest of procrastination? This means I absolutely have to answer. I've wanted to read more Pratchett for ages, but quite honestly--I don't know where to start. There are a bazillion books in the Discworld series.

Generally? Hm, if I like a book or not doesn't depend on its age. *thinks back* Nope, no rhyme nor reason.

Two books that really disappointed me: 1. Nick Hornby's "About A Boy" (Raving reviews everywhere I looked. Insightful! Funny! It's not.) 2. Hermann Hesse's "Narziss und Goldmund" (I liked "Der Steppenwolf", but this one was...as subtle as a club to the head.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Ah yes, I actually had SWAT teams in my street, and a fire two days ago.

You never read any of his? Hm, I do recommend starting in the beginning, sorta, because he builds on his schtick - it spoils something if you read about the change in a person before having known said person (or species) before. If you really never read any (?) start with Equal Rites and Mort, not the actual two first novels, then perhaps Moving Pictures (if you like the cinema) and Reaper Man (if you fell in love with Death). Esp. men tend to rec Guards!Guards! and it's sequels, but I find it pays off to get to know the town and country gradually.

I don't like what I read of Hesse, and I only love Hornby's "High Fidelity" (so I didn't much enjoy the film, because to me that novel is indeed insightful (into men - oh, and music lovers, or you won't get it *g*) and funny, a hilarious+humane text).

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

SWAT? Fire? Do I want to know?

Well, I've read "Good Omens", but everyone has read that. Thank you so much for giving me a starting point. :)

I have thought about reading more of Hornby's work because hey, I can't make a decision about an author based on only one book.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

Heck, I'd like to know myself! I ignore the nightly violent shouting and the odd gun shot (ok, I try to ignore it) but I think the street full of police, firemen and SWAT teams was only a suicide? I never found out.

Yeah, I still don't get why everyone read GO. I loved it when it came out but never reread it, am a bit wary of it now that it's so spread, don't want to taint my glowy memory.

Hornby's very British, I read him in a row with Ben Elton and Sue Townsend, and with the exception of High Fidelity I find his books to be sad, on purpose. I bought HiFi because on the cover he says that once women read this they'd stop hating men - and pity them instead, only funnier, but I haven't got the book here ... I identified with the guy in it, and with Firth in the film version of Fever Pitch (don't read the book, it's really a collection of football stories, not like the film which had a narrative added). He's best when he writes about people being dorkily passionate about things, hence HiFi (+ FP), but since he's a realist, esp. How To Be Good ends with a suckerpunch.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

The title How To Be Good has always intrigued me. Plus, suckerpunch! They hurt, but they can be very effective.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

If you already thought AAB wasn't insightful, I doubt you'd even read till the ending of HTBG - plus, I should mention that an old colleague of mine managed to read the one sentence that I was talking about in a completely different light, I don't know how he did that. I'll stop because even though it doesn't change the other 400 pages, it might spoiler you if I was less obtuse.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

*hums* Well, if I borrow it, nothing's lost. But thanks for the warning. ;)

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

- Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides
- Der Name der Rose von Umberto Eco
- Good Omens by Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett
- White Teeth by Zadie Smith

These are just the ones right next to me on the shelf, all recommendable (although White Teeth has a really, really weak ending; the rest's fine).

As for fic --

depends. I've sent chele74 very rough drabbles of mine, and shecorrected a few things, we brainstormed, and I re-wrote it, essentially (all for 100 words, I know; sad), but now, for example, with the genderswitch -- well, Auburn and I have gone over each part at least twice before sending it to Beta One, modified, and sent it to Beta Two.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recs. I've heard of the first one (Hmm. I could even borrow that from a friend, now that I think about it.) and read the two middle ones, but White Teeth would be completely new to me. I hate weak endings with a passion. Is it still worth it?

Having a co-author read your parts...like a preliminary beta?

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Having a co-author read your parts...like a preliminary beta?

Hmm?

Well. Hmm.

We've outlined a LOT of things together so the end results are an odd mix of both our styles -- I'm actually very interested if people can tell which parts were written by whom. (Not that anyone will care, I guess. *g*) Having the writing partner who hasn't transcribed the outline look over it would not qualify as a beta, though; still a co-writer, I think. A beta is someone who, for all her good advice and input and all the love and adoration one may harbour for her, is still secondary to the actual author.

A part that was written by only one of us -- I guess that could be called a preliminary beta, although I still wouldn't, for the reason mentioned above: equal footing, equal importance, equal say on what happens and how it happens.

As for White Teeth...I enjoyed the characters and the descriptions tremedously; they are vivid, made me angry and happy and annoyed plus everything in between -- 'tis not an easy thing, not even for an enthusiastic reader like me.

My advice: Don't buy it, borrow it. Go to the library, ask if a friend got it, or go find an online excerpt to read. If that strikes your fancy, then go on.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Not that anyone will care, I guess. Aww, I wouldn't have put it that bluntly. More like: It will be really, truly fantastic, so nobody will care who wrote what. ;)

I always feel that a long comment deserves a long reply (Why, self, why?), but my reaction to reading this consists mostly of nodding and going: Hmm. Interesting.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Fair enough.

No need to reply to this. (But then, it's short, anyway. & ;-))

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

*snorts* I'll reply anyway. Just to spite you! (Don't mind me. I woke up like that.)

You know, this made me think of someone's author's notes or essay or something in the XF fandom. God, it's been years, but I think it was...Plausible Deniabilty or Parrot? Anyway, moooving on.
It was about the writing process and how finding a co-author who matched her/his style was difficult, which made me wonder if it's really impossible for two authors to create something if their styles differ wildly.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

The icon...ah, yes.

Plausible Deniabilty

I loved her!

It was about the writing process and how finding a co-author who matched her/his style was difficult

Huh. I guess it is; Auburn and I seem, oddly enough, made for each-frikkin'-other -- we have written the same line of dialogue a couple of times now, and there are only few instances when we really drift apart. Our AIM conversations are funny to us but very boring to a third party, I assume: There's a lot of "YES, EXACTLY!" and "Right! Muuuch better, just like that!" and "GTMA, baby". We've accused each other of having stolen the other writer's brain more times than I can count. She's a much better writer than I am, and I could never match her lyrical, dramatic style...but when she writes humour fiction, she and I just come together beautifully.

if it's really impossible for two authors to create something if their styles differ wildly.

Yeah -- at least in one genre, see above. Although, of course, you could switch POVs; one author takes one, the other author the other -- I know that there are authors like that in fandom. Or you could use alternate timelines switching back and forth...there are quite a few possibilities, but of course, you're right in so far as the two authors have to agree on the basic treatment of the subject.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

You're having a lot of fun writing this, eh? (Can I use "eh" in this context? Am I even allowed to use it if I'm not Canadian? Moooving on.)

Hm. Different authors for different timelines. Or for old/young character of coice. Which could work if the character had changed quite a lot. Interesting concept.

[fan-this.livejournal.com]

Book list:

Dancing at the Rascal Fair by Ivan Doig (a little old, but quite good)
The Blind Assassin by Margaret Atwood
Middlesex by Jeffery Eugendes
Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury (also, check out the Martian Chronicles. Probably the best written sci-fi ever. It'll make you cry, I swear)
The Persian Pickle Club by Sandra Dallas (short but good)
Resistance by Anita Shreve (probably the only book of her's I like but it paints the most delicate and poignant pictures)
Ellen Foster by Kaye Gibbons (a quick, gut wretching read)
The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho (metaphorical storytelling at it's best)

Definitely check out The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell if nothing else. It's probably the most tear stained book I own because her characters breathe and live and die and it's probably the most beautiful piece of science fiction (though many wouldn't consider it so even with the aliens) I've ever read in my life. So good. So so good. There is also a sequel to it called Children of God, which is a bit more talky but, if possible, more heartbreaking than the first book.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

So, that's two votes for Middlesex so far. Thanks for the recs and the little descriptions! :)

The Sparrow? Oh, you make a convincing argument! Lately, I've been whining about books that don't have any emotional impact on me, so I feel a strong urge to check it out.

[fan-this.livejournal.com]

Middlesex is so interesting! It can be dry in bits, but on the whole it's very intriguing and has a great sarcastic edge to it.

I'm always up for book recs! I have a whole book journal full of good books to recommend so hit me up whenever you need something to read.

Oooo, good, I was trying to convince you to read it. Now, lets see if you're like "OMGIHATEYOUFORMAKINGMEREADTHIS" later. It just breaks me everytime I read it.

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed Stephanie Coontz's "Marriage, a History: From Obedience to Intimacy, or How Love Conquered Marriage". Very interesting reading.

As for writing - er, yes. I've done both. Some stories spring fully formed from my brain, while others come out in bits and pieces. I'll send scenes out to betas, just to get some feedback on them, or I'll agonize over the fic forever, tweaking and changing and fussing over it before sending it out to be read.

And sometimes I'll do that and NOT send it out to be beta'd, because I'm sick to death of the story and don't want to even consider looking at it again.

So, my answer is, it depends. *g*

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Oh, that book was already recced elsewhere. *checks it out on Amazon* Thank you!

Reading about the writing process and how it differs from author to author is pretty damn interesting.

I'm sick to death of the story and don't want to even consider looking at it again.
This sounds very, very frustrating. Very. What was one of the stories you really wrestled with? *tilts head, looks curious*

[thegrrrl2002.livejournal.com]

"Streets" was definitely one that I wrestled with, although I'm pretty sure I sent that one out to be beta'd. It's one of those fics that I'm not entirely happy with, although certain scenes came out okay. I think I finally wrote the John fic I had wanted to write with "Crazy". "Streets" was a warm-up. *g*

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

*aaaand off to reread* ;)

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

I second-guess myself and change things continually through the writing process, but as soon as I think I have something decent I send it off to beta, because otherwise I will just keep poking!

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

otherwise I will just keep poking!
So there is a point when poking becomes a bad idea?

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

Well, it just ceases to be productive. Plus, I'm generally fiddling at the word-level, and sometimes a beta will come back with something structure-level, and that changes everything again.

[inthekeyofd.livejournal.com]

I can rec the book I always do, it's older but it's still good, it's "The Alienist" by Caleb Carr.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :)

[aurora]

It took me five minutes to remember the word for yesterday. Yesterday. Oh, the utter shame.
Dude, I had to think about this for a minute or so as well. :D My French is kinda sucky and you're right, I can never practice it. Oh, I'm watching SG1 in French every weekend, I guess that counts for something. :D

Hmm, I'm currently reading Wicked. I'm way behind on books and everything since LJ took over my life.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

SG-1 in French? Where?

[aurora]

Umm, RTBF. It's the Belgian Francophone channel.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Woe. Thwarted again.

[aurora]

I feel your pain. I get a few international channels but never the good ones. And they took away CNN and BBC World a few months agon. God, I'm still so bitter about that. :|

[kaaatie.livejournal.com]

Looks like you've already got quite a few books recced ... but I'll add my suggestion anyway!!

The last book that I read that I really enjoyed was My Sister's Keeper by Jodi Picoult ---- Its the story of a child who was genetically engineered to save her sister from leukemia --- I wasn't too impressed with the ending, but it was still a good read.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Yep. But book recs are always welcome. Thank you!

[rike-tikki-tavi.livejournal.com]

Have you read Naomi Novik's Temeraire, yet?

For fantasy:
The Keeper Chronicles by Tanya Huff are great, especially the first two.
Chicks in Chainmail and Chicks and Chained Males are anthologies by Esther Friesner and always worth a laugh.

For Pratchett:
I'd start the Discworld series with The Light Fantastic and Equal Rites to get a feel for the universe and then see what takes your fancy.
Personally, I adore the City Watch Novels, so Guards! Guards! and Feet of Clay as starting points and progress from there.
A Monsterous Regiment is a wonderful standalone that can be read with only little knowledge of the other Discworld novels.
And his children's books (billed as such because of young characters I guess) Maurice and His Amazing Educated Rodents, Wee Free Men and A Hat Full of Sky are fantastic and don't read like children's books at all.

Neil Gaiman works well with Pratchett, but while Pratchett is more humorous and social commentary, Gaiman is very twisted and sometimes goes down into horror. I enjoyed Neverwhere and Smoke and Mirrors, a collection of short stories.

In pure scifi I liked Heinlein's Friday. It's a chillingly believable future that he paints and very interesting in a strong-and-interesting-female-lead-written-by-a-male-author way.

My most favorite non fantasy or scifi novel is Shogun by James Clavell. Forget the movie and the mini series, the book is so much better.

Sorry, bored at work and therefor spamming your lj.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Hee. Naomi Novik's Temeraire was the reason why I was browsing through Amazon in the first place.

Thank you very much for the recs, especially for giving me a starting point in the Discworld universe. _inbetween_ also recced Equal Rites, so that goes on my list.

I've read Neverwhere. Is Smoke and Mirrors similar or completely different? Give me answers, fight the boredom! ;)

[rike-tikki-tavi.livejournal.com]

Smoke and Mirrors is a collection of short stories. Some are funny, some are twisted and some are downright nightmare inducing horror. It's a good showcase of all the things he can do.

If you live close to Berlin, I could probably lend you some books.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Alas, no. *shrugs dejectedly*
I live near Munich. But thank you anyway! :)

[kaizoku.livejournal.com]

Books... The Intuitionist by Colson Whitehead. I haven't finished it yet, but it's fascinating. The main character is the first black female elevator inspector in a nameless city, who gets tangled up in the political machinations of the Department of Elevator Inspectors, the Empiricists vs. the Intuitionists. Also just reread Hemlock and Fire by Diana Wynne Jones and it's still amazing. Twisty and fantastical and mixed up with mythology and fairy tales.

The only French fanfiction I know enough to rec is askerian's Gundam Wing yaoi fanfic. You can find it on her website (http://asukasama.free.fr/). Most of it is translated into English as well. I liked the Equilibre series and The Werewolf (the title of the English version is "Garou.") I admire you for trying to keep up your French - I've lost most of mine (along with the German, and now the Japanese and Vietnamese too.)

Do you write a fic and send that first draft off to beta or do you type it out, let it sit on the hard drive for a while, second-guess yourself, change stuff and then send it off to beta?
I'm horrible at finishing drafts. I generally think I would send stuff off right away, but on the other hand I'd want to have enough of the story that there would be something to beta. (For me, I'd think all of a short story, or 2-3 chapters of something longer.) I once sent part of a story to a beta, but it ended up not really working out. I *wish* I knew someone I could just bounce ideas off of and get a "yeah, that sounds like an awesome idea! write it!" or a "um, what? that was completely incomprehensible and only amusing to you" -- whatever fits. ;-)

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, French fanfiction! Thank you so much, I'll check it out right away. Also thanks for the book recs!

Well, trying is the operative word in the sentence. It's just that I'd hate to see four years of French going down the drain.

Someone to bounce ideas off is always great, methinks. ;)

[kaizoku.livejournal.com]

Good luck with the French, then! Fanfiction is at least a good motivation.
In terms of idea-bouncing, my partner has offered to take a look at my stories, even though he's somewhat bemused by my strange obsessions. (I got him to read kaneko's Intersections though, and he enjoyed that.)
I just realized the second book's title is actually Fire and Hemlock! Oops.

[dar-jeeling.livejournal.com]

What do you mean, obsessions? Nobody's obsessed, it's just...fandom.

*ponders*
Maybe obsession's the right word after all. ;)

I have yet to meet someone who didn't like Intersections.